Who is my audience? I do not wish to edit myself for anyone. Love is radical. This is a practice. I do not wish to preach. I do not wish to hide the truth, which is that I am human. I am not always happy. I no longer think that it is a good thing that I am able to appear so ‘good.’
What does ‘good’ mean? I think that ‘good’ is a description for those who are able to love others. But I also think that ‘good’ is a collective projection, through which we celebrate those who appear to be void of the irrational, bigger-than-self fury which makes us all human.
If this is the case, then I am not ‘good.’
I do not want to internalize the pride, admiration, and praise of others if what they are celebrating is that I appear to be absent of rage. This is the paradox in being ‘good.’ First, I loved myself; my rage, my pain, my terror, and my vulnerability, and so, I was able to love others. Love is radical, and so you labeled me as ‘good.’ You adored me for being ‘good.’ And I did too. Listen to me; it is an illusion.
Let me break the illusion.
Sometimes, I love others. Sometimes. But I am not a construct, or an anomaly. I am a person. What I want, is to radically love myself. I am angry. This is okay. And so I am back where I started. I am my own audience, this is a practice, and I no longer wish to deceive myself, nor you.
See me for what I am, not what you want me to be. I speak to my reader and I speak to myself. What I do not choose to show you still exists. What I do choose to show you is mine. Only what I give you, is yours. This distinction matters. My humanity depends on it.
If I am to be ‘good,’ let it mean only that I am human.
Shiraz Ramji is many things. In his own words, he identifies “as a Global Citizen of Mother Earth working for Gender Justice and Global Peace with Grandparents-Grandchildren Friendship.” I think this is a wonderful introduction to Shiraz, capturing many of his interests which include the environment, justice and equality, peace, and the rights and wellbeing of the elderly. He is especially fond of the special friendship between grandparents and grandchildren, and he works tirelessly to increase representation of grandparents and elders. But there is still much more to say about Shiraz Ramji, so let’s start from the beginning.
Shiraz Ramji was born in Tanzania on December 10th, 1948 (which he likes to note is International Human Rights Day). At the time, Tanzania was ruled by the British, and so his elementary school education was darkly tainted by British Colonialism. All schools were segregated by race and English culture was taught “as the only civilized culture.” Despite the oppressive atmosphere, Shiraz found a passion for both mathematics and poetry, and he enjoyed playing soccer and climbing mango trees with his African and Asian friends (he would later tell me that the first time he spoke to a European on a student-to-student level was when he was 30 and studying in England).
Shiraz’s education and career accomplishments have been fruitful. He studied education, mathematics, and physics at the University of Dar-es-Salaam and happily found a career as a high school teacher. But from what I’ve learned of Shiraz, his passions tend to blossom rapidly and so it is of no surprise that in 1980, he found himself studying Statistics and Epidemiology at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. This prepared him to work as a medical statistician in Tanzania, Mozambique, and Zimbabwe for 14 years. If you think that Shiraz’s resume is long, trust me it gets longer 😉
In 1994, Shiraz came to Canada to study Gerontology (the multidisciplinary study of aging and older adults) and he also explored his passion for Gender Justice and completed a degree in Women’s Studies. Shiraz told me he likes to get a degree every 10 years. (On the other hand, I would really like to get at least one degree, preferably in at least 10 years). Shiraz has also taken many courses in First Nations studies at SFU and has volunteered for many First Nations events. In his own words, living and learning with the Indigenous people of North Amamerica gives him hope for a better world. Poetry still plays a powerful role in Shiraz’s life, and he takes to the streets, the buses, the community centers, and SFU’s campus, to share packages of his poetry, spreading his message of peace and global harmony. And so this is the story of Shiraz Ramji, largely summarized from his autobiography.
But before we jump into the interview, let me offer a slightly different take on Shiraz. Before I read Shiraz’s story, before I began researching him, this is what I knew of him. I knew that Shiraz was regular at Edmonds Community Pool where my brother works as a lifeguard. I knew that he had an impressive amount of degrees and that my brother was very fond of him. I also knew that my sister was very fond of him; she too had met him while working at the pools, and he had shared kind words and a package of his poetry with her. Not too long ago, after my brother told Shiraz about me and my concussion, he came home with a gift from Shiraz—my very own package of his poetry. Not too long after reaching out to him, this message from Shiraz found its way to me:
On Fruit Trees and Poetry: “You Are My Nutrients”
Hanna: I think my first question is about your poetry, which has a lot of fruit metaphors in it? Why is that? Can you tell me a bit about that?
Shiraz: Well, I grew up surrounded in East Africa with a lot of fruit trees, and so I’ve always eaten a lot of fruit. And I thought it fit well with my vision that people are part of the environment. With trees, I thought that would be a nice metaphor to connect and symbolize because there are fruit trees which are fruitful, and there are fruit trees which produce bitter fruits, and some fruit trees don’t produce any fruit. So that’s how I connected it. It was probably my childhood links with fruit trees, and I used to climb mango trees and all kinds of trees. It clicked in more when—when I came to Canada everybody was complaining about low self-esteem, and then I said why are you complaining about low self-esteem? I was used to the word superior complex and inferior complex. But then I just wrote three lines for the buses: that every person is a fruit tree, every person is a fruitful tree. So then it when on from there and then I added more lines and so on.
Hanna: Yeah, I really like that idea of everyone being a fruitful tree. Like we all need to be taken care of, we all need water, sunshine, love. Is that something you noticed? That there is a lot of low self-esteem—like people talk about having low self-esteem in Canada? Is that what you were saying?
Shiraz: Oh much more, yeah. Much more than I expected, in terms of, everybody is worrying about either not being recognized—people come to me and they tell me, “Nobody talks to me except you.”
Hanna: Aww
Shiraz: I said, “Why?” And they said, “I don’t know, this is Canada.” So I said, “Well you talk to me, that’s fine. Let’s continue” (laughs). I don’t know, that’s what I mentioned with the silence conformity, where people are suppressing their ideas to speak because they are worried that somebody will be hurt. And yet they are listening to a lot of stories in the media and so on. I personally think people should not be afraid of people. I don’t use the word ‘stranger.’ I just call people, ‘people.’ Even if I have not met them. So, I’ve been encouraging people to talk and share their stories. Because to me, every person is also a book, and every wrinkle is a page of the book. And that idea I got because of my work with elders and elders admire wrinkles. Because my mother had a lot of wrinkles when I was born (laughs), she was 44. So, I connected that, as a book rather than as unwanted wrinkles.
Hanna: So you think that if people communicate more with each other and share their stories, and we learn to listen to each other, our self-esteem with improve.
Shiraz: Yeah, I think people have wonderful stories of their lives, you know? And as I mentioned before, whenever I go on the bus or SkyTrain, if somebody sits next to me or I sit next to somebody, I start talking. If they are comfortable, we talk about each other’s stories. And through that, I’ve met so many people. Even if I go swimming, I talk to the lifeguards including your brother (laughs). It’s much more connecting, human to human. It’s really not restricted by the nationality and so on. Now, of course, there are people who have certain ideas of me because I’m Asian and Brown and so on, but then that’s their problem, not my problem. So I try to connect and if they connect, I’m fine. I’m lucky that I can be that way, but that comes from my father and mother because although they were 44 when I was born—my father and my mother was 37—by the time I was 10 or 15, they looked like 80 years old. So they were highly respected, and everyone came to talk to them and they talked to everybody. So I’ve continued emanating that.
Hanna: If you think of yourself as a fruit tree, do you feel like you’ve had people in your life who have nurtured you as a fruit tree?
Shiraz: Well, starting with my parents, my neighbors, my siblings. My school mates, my teachers, the authors I’ve read whom I’ve never met, they’ve also kind of added nutrients in my brain. So, there are many people, some not very positive, but then it’s all right. Even now when I’m sharing your story, you are my nutrient.
Hanna: Aww (laughs)
Shiraz: That’s how I’ve lived my 72 years of life. Does it make sense?
Hanna: It does make sense. I think we need people a lot more than we are comfortable admitting, and we need people to give us love and kindness, and time and patience. And I think that your poetry reminds people of that. That we need that from each other, and we also are responsible to give it to other people too.
Shiraz: Yeah, it’s both ways. That’s why I use the word ‘share’ a lot. Sharing is not only one way. I think people should recognize that sharing is both ways.
Hanna: Yeah, I think so too.
Shiraz: That’s why I don’t use the word ‘help’ because ‘help’ is very paternalistic. I just say I shared. And I keep going, yes. So, you are completely right by saying that we need to communicate with people and we need to enjoy it, yes.
A Special Bond with Elders—Always Advocating for Their Rights
Hanna: Okay, I’m going to move on to my second question. So you do a lot of work with grandparents and grandchildren friendships, trying to make that more visible. Why is the friendship between grandparents and grandchildren so special to you?
Shiraz: When my parents were grandparents, all though I saw a lot of friendship between them, what triggered my focus on grandparents was when I was training nurses how to evaluate vaccination programs as a medical statistician. I realized when the results came in that among those not vaccinated were children who were twins or triplets because they couldn’t carry the children, and then there were the children under the care of grandparents. So I said, “Who the hell have grandparents? Mine died before I was born.” That was 30 years ago, and then it triggered me to take more interest through demography and finding out how many children had grandparents and so on. Then I did some work for some NGOs on the needs of refugees for elders in the camps. So, that really triggered me. And then when I came to Canada, I studied Gerontology, and I wrote a lot of papers about grandparents during my studies there, and I collected picture books with grandparents and grandchildren. And then, I volunteered for a lot of film festivals, and one day I thought, “Oh there are no films with grandparents!” So I started Grandparents-Grandchildren Film Festival and started looking for movies. But also in addition to that, I’ve learned so much from my parents who were grandparents when I was only 9 months old, but also from my uncles and my mother’s sisters, my aunties, and so. And my neighbors because for some reason I was a pet boy for a lot of elderly people because I used to bring them things which they needed. So I have a very special bond with elders, yes. And I think a lot of grandparents want to meet their grandchildren, it all depends on if the parents want it. So that’s a big issue.
Hanna: So you spent a lot of time working with elders and seniors, so you have a strong bond to that group, and you advocate for their rights. And you’re trying to make it present, like the relationships that they have with their grandchildren.
Shiraz: I think I’m lucky, yes. I do it through various resources, like organizations and so on. I continuously talk about the grandparent-grandchildren friendships or the needs of elders and people listen. Because that’s a group—about 20% of the population—who’s totally marginalized. When I talk about them, it’s a first time kind of news. Well not first time, but something which is not on their radar. So far, I’ve had a very positive response. When I decided to have Grandparents Film Festival, I got a room from Edmonds Community Centre, and I got equipment to show the films. And when I told the national film board, they agreed to give me free films. So far, I don’t there is a direct opposition to me (laughter). I mean to what I’m doing. It is something which requires energy, but I think I have enough energy eating healthy food (laughs). So I keep going. And swimming helps. If I feel down, I just go for a swim. It’s so cool, you know.
Hanna: Yes (laughs). I miss swimming. I haven’t gone swimming in a long time.
Shiraz: Yeah, one day. You are a lifeguard, so.
Hanna: I used to, yeah.
Shiraz: I love the metaphor lifeguard, you know. I tell people, you can also be a lifeguard outside the pool.
Hanna: It’s a wonderful job. I haven’t worked since my injury, but I valued my time working there so much. So wonderful.
Shiraz: No, you are excellent. It’s good. I wish I was your age, then I could be a lifeguard (laughs). But one day I want to get the T-shirt. It’s so cool, that T-shirt.
Hanna: You should get one! Can they just give you one (laughs)?
Shiraz: I tried many times (laughs). They say, “It’s only for the staff.” So I say, “Okay” (laughs).
Hanna: That’s sad. I’m sure you can find a lifeguard shirt on Amazon or something. But it’s not the Burnaby one.
Shiraz: Yeah, I should do that actually. Or make one and get it printed, no?
Hanna: Yeah, you could do that. And they fit so well. I’ve worn a lot of them, and they’re so comfortable.
Shiraz: Yeah, one of my hobbies is to collect T-shirts.
Hanna: Really (laughs)?
Shiraz: Yeah (laughs). With a lot of interesting messages, and I wear T-shirts all the time. I don’t think I’ve bought a shirt in a long time (laughter). And I collect postcards with fruit and postcards with bicycles. Because I go to the elementary schools and then I show them all these cards and I say, “You should eat enough fruit and ride bicycles for exercise.” So those are my 3 hobbies, yes.
The Impact of British Colonialism: “You Can’t Unlearn Everything.”
Hanna: So you were telling me how British Colonialism and Imperialism really affected your education in Africa, both elementary school and high school. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Is that okay
Shiraz: Well, I grew up in Tanzania where the British government was running the establishment. So all schools were following the British syllabus and the British curriculum. And therefore when I started Grade 1, I couldn’t learn any Swahili, or any Hindi, or any Gujarati. It was all about glorifying England. Not even Scotland and Ireland, which we didn’t know much about. Everything was God Save the Queen—everything was British. Therefore, it was quite a contradiction from my culture at home—the culture I learned in school. But then you are not very conscious of it, because it was a normal thing to do. You go to school, learn about these colonial messages, and come home—and then you do what you do at home. That went on until I did my university, and there I was involved with the Anti-Colonial Movement and the Anti-Apartheid Movement, and then I became more conscious about the other parts of the world. And also Tanzania became independent in 1961—I was already in grade 8, I think. So that helped because then other people outside the British Empire were invited, and we learned a lot about Latin America, Asia, and so on. So, the more you got exposed to other literature and so on, the more you will reflect on how colonialism has affected your life.
Hanna: I can imagine it would be very difficult when it’s just all around you, the message is so pervasive—and there’s so much authority behind it too—to sort of start developing that consciousness that something wrong is happening. But it sounds like when you got to university, that’s when your consciousness really started to expand, and you started to unlearn all of these colonial and imperialistic messages.
Shiraz: Yeah, that’s right. When you say anything which is not considered normal, you are, of course, either rebellion or somebody who is to keep quiet. But I did question that, and I was also questioning about the inequality and so on. Because you see, when I was in elementary school, we were an all-boys school and separated from the girls’ school, and there was a neighbor who didn’t have the school fees. So I used my pocket-money and gave it to her and said, “Go and pay.” I mean, quite unconsciously, but I said, “Why can’t you go to school?” You now? So there are things that I have been involved in, in a very quiet way, without anybody else knowing it. Small things become cumulative, right? And because I was living in a poor neighborhood of Dar-es-Salaam, we were mixing with Africans and all of the people of different racial groups. So it was much more normal for me as I grew up, mixing with people, or communicating, or playing soccer, and so on. I was quite happy about it, and I felt that we could have that lifestyle—it never changed for me. And since then I have become quite comfortable working in a lot of poor neighborhoods.
Hanna: I just want to say that I’m sorry that you had to go through that.
Shiraz: No, it’s good for me because it reminds me of memories, you know? Like yesterday you were talking about—that you read Paulo Friere, and then I started writing because every time people ask me a question, and then it reflects me to my days, with those stories. So, thank you for doing it. Not too worry.
Hanna: Oh no, I just mean it must have been very difficult going through that colonial education system. I can’t imagine.
Shiraz: Yeah, yeah, it is difficult because it’s still kind of oppressive, both in terms of the legal system, but also in terms of administration, and in terms of oppressing people’s expression. So people didn’t talk openly as much as—it was normalized, right? That’s the whole thing, which becomes a more difficult challenge.
Hanna: Yes, yes. Even when it’s very wrong.
Shiraz: Yeah, it’s very wrong. In people’s minds, who are colonized, they knew there was something wrong—when you are discriminated against or excluded for no other reason except for your color or your nationality.
Hanna: A very damaging and painful experience.
Shiraz: Yeah.
Hanna: Yeah.
Shiraz: And also, like in our schools, we were mostly Asians and Africans. So I don’t think I talked to any European until I went to university. As a student, I was 30 when I was in England and a student with a European in the classroom. And that was the first time I talked with them on a student-student level. Because the Europeans had a very private school. So I’m just saying, that for me, communicating with people, I’m fine with it.
Hanna: Okay. Did it take a lot of work to unlearn all of those beliefs? When you were in university? Is it like an ongoing process of reflection?
Shiraz: Oh it’s continuously unlearning. You can’t unlearn everything, but you try to unlearn as much—unlearn and at the same time, learn about other alternative values, right? Or systems or knowledge. Because those things are very deep, you see? That’s why we call it early childhood education. It’s very brainwashing. And I think unlearning is also on both sides because a lot of Europeans are learning about colonialism and its impact on other people. And they are breaking the bubble and getting out of it. So it’s kind of like, every community is in a bubble and people are blowing these bubbles one by one.
Hanna: So it’s work everybody has to do. Because everyone fits into the ideology somewhere, they have their own reflections to do.
Shiraz: Yeah.
Hanna: Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
Research for Social Justice: The Importance of Open and Sharing Relationships
Hanna: When you reviewed Neel’s thesis, that was about community-based research that was meaningful. And you guys both talked about how it was really important to have open and sharing relationships when you’re doing meaningful community-based research. Do you want to talk a bit about open and sharing relationships?
Shiraz: Well, I’ve done a lot of research myself or with the students, and I find that the more you know about the community you are researching the better. In terms of interpreting the imformation and also in understanding the infomation. And also to communicate what you are doing to as many people in the community, so that you are not a mystery figure. In that sense, I’ll give you three examples.
Hanna: Okay.
Shiraz: I was recruited by Oxfam and other NGOs to go in and do research in the refugee camps. These were refugees from Mozambique who had come to Zimbabwe. And they’d already got the answers. They said these elders need glasses, but they wanted some sort of research to confirm it. So I went and did the research, but then I went to talk to the people myself instead of anybody else doing it. So I went and interviewed more than 100 elders in the camp, and they all told me they needed buckets and cooking pots for the water—they didn’t talk about glasses at all.
Hanna: Yeah.
Shiraz: I told them, this is what is needed because you are distributing food because these guys don’t have any way to cook the food or carry the water. Then I attended a lot of meetings and talked about this biasness. And they listened and they provided the buckets and so on. So that helped, you see? That’s one example of research where you discuss with the community.
And I did work with The Aboriginal People’s Television Network, so I talked to a lot of First Nations. I said, I’m not Indigenous, but they said, “No, you are Indian, so you are Indigenous” (laughs). So they allowed me to talk and communicate and we discussed. So I’ve always been quite truthful on what I am planning to do. That also helped. And people read my stuff, and then I did some Indigenous courses when they opened up. And now the instructors who are First Nations, they invite me to come to their classes and talk about my work with the grandparents. So it has become both ways.
But, yeah, I spend a lot of time reading about the area where I am going to do research. You see, one of the training we get as a medical statistician is more like, you become a statistician without much knowledge of the community. But I went a bit further and I wanted to link up how data is generated and how to interpret the data and so on. By reading a lot of literature and talking to people about how to interpret the data, to make it easier for me to interpret the data in a social way. So I was in a medical school and I could argue with all of these big shots, and doctors, and surgeons, and I still do with the UBC [professors]. It tells that I made medical statistics more inclusive rather than pure numbers. Yeah, I do a lot of research before I do research.
Hanna: Yeah, I think that it’s the more respectful thing to do, to learn about the people that you’re going to be doing with and for. You also stressed in that review of Neel’s thesis that it should be research that benefits the community, like it’s community-based research, it’s research for social justice. It’s not—
Shiraz: Yeah, it just reminds me of one of the two other examples. The other research I remembered just now, is when I was doing research to help the needs of elders in the villages, I was working with the village health workers, and we had a lot of time talking to each other. And one of the things we talked about was bicycles because all village health workers were given bicycles.
Hanna: Yeah.
Shiraz: So, I said, “What are the problems of using it?” And then she said, “Tires” (laughter). So I said, “What’s the problem?” She says, “You see, there are only men’s tires in Mozambique.” They were only making 38 inches or 28 inches and then the bicycles given by UNICEF were 26 inches. So they didn’t have it. So I worked with them and I went to the city where they make tires and I talked to them, and they said, “No, we make them and we can promote it.” Eventually, shops started keeping bicycle tires. And the other thing was repairing because they didn’t know much about how to repair. So I searched and searched and found a Catholic school which was for boys, and they were teaching the boys how to repair bicycles. And it was a two-year course. So I asked if they would run a one week course for village health workers in their area first. And then I did some research on women and bicycles (laughter) and learned so much about how women learned how to ride bicycles. It was often the father who was a postman who had a bicycle, and he taught them how to ride the bicycle. Or why they wouldn’t want to ride bicycles, and it was because they didn’t want to miss their friends who are walking. So they would rather keep the bicycle at home.
Hanna: This is so interesting. You’ve been doing research for social justice your whole life, I think.
Shiraz: Yeah, even without knowing about justice. But it was justice (laughs).
Hanna: It was justice. Yeah, you were listening to people’s needs and you were finding solutions for them, to help them.
Shiraz: Yeah, it came out quite nicely, actually, I was surprised. I tell people, most of the things I’ve done many people will never know about it (laughs). But since I did the research on women and bicycles, I’ve always been looking at all the bicycles and even now I’m collecting greeting cards and postcards with women and bicycles. I can’t find a card with girls, I can find a card with boys.
Hanna: Oh no! (laughter). If I find one, I will get it to you.
Shiraz: Yeah, it’s very hard to find one. But I’m just saying, even at the level of cycling there can be so much discrimination.
Hanna: Yeah, it’s amazing what images in the media—what messages they communicate without us even realizing.
Shiraz: Yeah, so I’ve done a lot of small, small things. I also think that one thing I did when I was going with my mother to a school for the blind, I said I want to be a teacher for the blind because I was so impressed with the boys and girls learning—
Hanna: Braille.
Shiraz: Braille. Braille? But then I finished high school and I couldn’t go and learn to be a blind school teacher. I was falling in love with the people who are visually impaired—now I forgot the story (laughter).
Hanna: That’s okay.
Shiraz: But, because I wanted to be a teacher—at the time when I was in school, everybody wanted to be doctors and engineers and I was the only one who wanted to be a teacher. Everybody told me, you’ll never make money, you’ll never marry—that’s true today (laughter). But I didn’t really bother with the question of money as much they were doing it. I knew that I would do a lot of work without monetary value but more for my own satisfaction and happiness. Like the bicycle project.
Hanna: Yup.
Shiraz: As a teacher, I had some authority and therefore I was quite ready to use that position as a teacher to talk to other teachers in the Catholic school and learn about it. It’s not misusing but more consciously—even today I am more focused on ideas and stories than going to the bank to count how much money I’ve got.
Hanna: Yup (laughs). I always like to think that we all have power. Power’s not a bad thing but we can use it to do a lot of good. Like, we have a voice.
Shiraz: Yeah, it’s a question of whether you use power for justice or you use power to exploit. I’m lucky that I can do a few things that I can do as a teacher.
Hanna: When I was very sick with my injury, at my worst, I felt like I did not have a lot of power. And then I would think back to when I was uninjured and I was like, “Oh I had so much power, and what was I doing with it?” So now that I am getting better, and I’m able to do a lot more things, I try to use that power to put good out there.
Shiraz: Yeah, and that power includes listening to stories of people, right? Whatever the income, or whatever the nationality, or race, or gender.
Hanna: Yeah, it’s good for me and it’s good for them.
Shiraz: Yeah.
The Opposite of Fear: The Freedom to Share Stories
Hanna: What is the opposite of fear?
Shiraz: Well, freedom I would say. Happiness. Freedom would be much more—the correct word. Or happiness. Yeah, I would say enjoy your freedom to share stories. Freedom, yes.
Hanna: And how do you think we counteract fear? Because there is a lot of fear in our culture of others, of strangers.
Shiraz: Well, stop using the word stranger (laughs).
Hanna: Okay (laughs).
Shiraz: Because I don’t think many countries use this word. Actually, I’m a good listener, I listen to what people say, and I think Canada is one country which uses the word stranger more than in Europe. Because in Britain, you either say “I met a woman” or “I met a man.”
Hanna: Yeah.
Shiraz: Whereas here—
Hanna: Yeah!
Shiraz: —everybody is a stranger. In the States, they would always say, “I met a guy” or “I met a woman,” or “I met a doll,” or whatever. But they would never say, ‘stranger.’ And that I think is very annoying for me because (laughs) I meet people at SFU and they write in their blog, I met a stranger who gave us poetry. And I say, “Look, I’m a part of SFU family, what the hell are you talking about!”
Hanna: That is so true, we use that word all the time. Like I’ll say, “Oh I met this random stranger at such and such place.” And I don’t mean it in a bad way but it does create this sense of otherness when really, they could be quite close to me. We could be a part of the UBC family or, you know, they’re part of my global family. So, why use that word?
Shiraz: But also, it’s used dangerously because the word means, “person you’ve never met.” And then you sort of train your children, don’t talk to strangers. So you’re already brainwashing them without defining who’s a stranger. And that applies to everybody. Even when I share poetry with people, some of the things they say are, “Oh after reading your poetry I can trust you” (laughs). So I say, “Okay. Thank you” (laughs). But I trusted you before I gave you the poetry. So it took you time. Anyway, take your time. But I’m just saying that I think they should abolish using the word stranger. Even if they say somebody Asian or African, I’m fine. I think that’s better than just—I think it’s a very poisonous word. It’s another word for savage, really, to be honest.
Hanna: Really?
Shiraz: Because of the negative side as well. And I say, if I met Obama would I say, “I met a stranger”?
Hanna: No.
Shiraz: No, right? So, if the famous people I’ve met, you don’t call them, ‘stranger.’ But if you meet somebody on the street you call them a ‘stranger.’ Anyway, I tell people stop using the word stranger.
Hanna: Do you think that we should trust all people when we meet them? Is that how you operate?
Shiraz: Well, I use the word trust in a much more broad way. It’s not relating to money. So, if you are in the public space, then I trust.
Hanna: Yeah.
Shiraz: So, I don’t look at someone who has a different health style—I would still share poetry with them. Homeless people or so on. It’s a public space, right? So you are not really going for a date or something, right?
Hanna: Yeah (laughs). Okay.
Shiraz: In that context I trust everyone.
Hanna: Okay.
Shiraz: So if you are in the classroom with people, you trust. It’s a public space. Same with Facebook or email or so on—I trust. Because it’s non-physical most of it, right? And I can understand because as I wrote, North America is very sexualized.
Hanna: Yeah, yeah.
Shiraz: So, it’s harder for women than men to talk to people. But then at least women can talk to women if they’re comfortable. Of course, you always look at their comfort level, I mean in terms of how comfortable you are, how vulnerable you are. But I remember one day I was sharing poetry, somebody was saying you’re wasting paper, and then the people sitting with me said, “You sit down, let him share. Come on, give us one as well” (laugh). So, as I say, it’s a public space most of the time, and there you can trust people or not fear people. You can make your own judgment. I mean even when I’m on the bus or the SkyTrain, I can recognize whom I can share with and whom I can’t share with. And that comes with experience as well, the more you do it, the more you recognize whom to share with and whom not to share with.
Hanna: So this idea of the public sphere being a place where we can all trust one another. That’s the ideal that you are striving for.
Shiraz: Yeah.
Hanna: Okay. Yeah, that sounds lovely. I think that would be a wonderful reality for all people if we could get to that place.
Shiraz: Yeah, because I talk to the lifeguards—not everybody talks to the lifeguards, at the pool (laughs). Whereas, I talk to them as my siblings. I’m all right with it. That’s also public space. Swimming, lifeguard, right? Because people are not talking to each other, so I organized a potluck at the different swimming pools. If you go to my website, you will see a PowerPoint about it. We did potlucks— so we did a food guide, so the first one we did a fruit party, and the second on we had a veggie party, and the third one we had a carbo party, and the fourth one, we did a milk party, so we had a lot of ice cream (laughs).
Hanna: You know the lifeguards, they do a potluck at the end of every lesson set. When they’re done teaching the kids, they’ve taught all the lessons, we’ll do a little potluck. But we don’t eat very healthy (laughs). So maybe we should look at your PowerPoint, there’s a lot of junk on those days.
How to Fight Greed: “Learn to Appreciate What You Have.”
Hanna: I only have two more questions, and they’re not too difficult. This one is what do you think’s the opposite of greed? And how do we fight greed?
Shiraz: Well, the opposite of greed is sharing.
Hanna: Sharing.
Shiraz: Sharing would be much more, closer to the opposite of greed, I would say. Because greed is very one-sided, right? And what was your second part?
Hanna: How do we fight greed?
Shiraz: Well, you minimize your own consumption and your own need. You learn to appreciate what you have and see where you can minimize. When I’m buying a book, sometimes it’s just to support the author because I might not get a chance to read it, and then I’ll donate it to somebody.
Hanna: Okay.
Shiraz: But other than that, it’s a question of what lifestyle you lead at the individual level. At the community level or at the national level, you talk about how greed is causing so much injustice. Why do you need to buy 10 houses? Because if you buy 10, then what happens is the prices go up and less people can buy it. So you challenge those people who are greedy as well, to reduce their greediness. So if there are more examples of simple lifestyles and also enjoying what little you have, rather than asking for more, and more, and more, and more. Whether it’s in terms of potlucks or in terms of—because even in potlucks people can eat everything, just one person (laughs). So you have to say, “Stop it, please.” Even potlucks can be places of sharing, rather than greed. It’s kind of a lifestyle where you are changing but also challenging the status quo, and so on. Because the media is full of having more, and more, and more, and more, right?
Hanna: There’s this idea of scarcity where we constantly feel like we don’t have enough, so we need to get more—I’ve heard. And I think I’ve also heard that gratitude is the way to counteract that. Like you’re saying, you practice appreciating what you have, and you practice minimizing your consumption and just being okay with what you have. Makes sense.
Shiraz: Yeah, that’s what I think. Because I’ve found all of my siblings worrying—the only thing they talk about is money (laughs).
Hanna: Yeah?
Shiraz: It’s quite challenging. But I’m just saying that the family gets divided because some are on the side of the greed and some are not. Sharing means sharing at all levels, not for publicity, you know?
Hanna: Yes, Yes.
Shiraz: The power of greed is quite strong, you have to always challenge it on a daily basis, actually.
Hanna: Yeah, I think so.
Shiraz: If you’re lucky, you can get friends who are not supporting greed and that’s good for you.
Hanna: Yeah.
Shiraz: And some people will avoid you because you don’t support their greed. And that should be okay.
Hanna: Yeah.
Shiraz: That level of exclusivity is not bad (laughs).
What Makes Shiraz Ramji Happy?
Hanna: This is sort of the last question. This question is, what makes you happy?
Shiraz: Well, you! (laughs).
Hanna: Thank you.
Shiraz: Talking to people like you.
Hanna: Okay.
Shiraz: No, because I meet people like you all the time and that gives me happiness. Then I make choices of swimming and eating healthy and
There are all kinds of people who make me happy. But happiness is to be shared as well because I am sharing my happiness. So it’s two way again. And when people make me happy, they know I am happy because of you. When you said you wanted to do my interview, that gave me happiness.
Hanna: Oh good.
Shiraz: Then your brother told me about you, so that gave me happiness, that she is sharing what I’m sharing. Because it multiplies right? On both sides. Now that you have told me about your stories that you have written on honey—Kevin—and so on, I can now share on the other side, right? On my side. So, sharing—that’s why I use the word sharing a lot. I always tell people—before Covid I would say, “Can I share a hug?” “Okay, share a hug!” Or, “Can I shake your hand?” “Okay!” So sharing I use quite freely.
Hanna: That was a very nice answer, that made me happy (laughs).
Shiraz: Yeah, well you must be happy because I am happy.
Hanna: Okay, we’ll be happy together.
Shiraz: And that’s a good time, you know.
At the end of the day the following message from Shiraz found its way to me:
Closing Thoughts: Stories, Justice, and a Good Friend
And there you have it folks, Shiraz Ramji! To me, Shiraz is someone who believes in the power of story. He listens when others forget to. He isn’t manipulated by the power of greed and the culture of fear, and more than most, I think he is able to see into the hearts of all people; to see their goodness and the value they bring to our world. Shiraz believes in justice. You can see this from his early days questioning the inequality of the British who rule over Tanzania, in the small things he does that many people will never know about—like the bicycle project—and in the hours he puts into learning about the justice friendly struggles of people of all nationalities, races, gender, sexuality, and ability. In our discussions both before, during, and after our interview, Shiraz has taught me much about open and sharing relationships, Xenophobia and how it is perpetuated through the word ‘stranger,’ and how to fight for justice and global peace. I am happy to call Shiraz Ramji a friend. In the short time I’ve known him, I’ve felt supported, seen, and respected. I truly think he’s a wonderful human being.
A few days after our interview this message from Shiraz found its way to me:
I wasn’t feeling that great today. Actually, I haven’t been for a while. Which I’m okay with.
I sometimes forget that it’s okay to feel all sorts of intense, not-so-fun emotions. What’s more important is how we cope with these emotions and move through them. And it might take a while, and that’s okay too.
But I can proudly say that I’m working on my self-care. Each day I add a new small goal. So far we’re at: eating a healthy breakfast, exercising in the morning, eating at least 3 servings of vegetables each day, using my positivity jar, meditating, trying to breathe when my feelings get overwhelming, and not downloading Tik Tok (I’m sure it works for some people, I cannot handle it).
On top of all that awesomeness, I decided to write a poem tonight. After working through the following thought: “This is going to suck, I’m totally out of practice,” this is what I came up with. I like it. Woo!
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This blog started with a pickle jar—for real it did! Click here to read more, or head on down for today’s mirco post.
Self-love is multidimensional. It’s important to tell yourself that you love yourself. And I do this—all the time. But it’s also important to behave in ways that communicate that you love yourself, that you’re worth it, and that you view yourself as a high priority. I have to remind myself of this a lot. Because sometimes, I find myself saying, “I love myself” over and over with it not quite sticking. It’s then that I ask myself, “What am I saying to myself through my behaviors?”
I’ll be honest with you, my self-care is not entirely where I want it to be right now. Sometimes I skip out on going for a walk, I forget to read just for fun, or I choose to mindlessly scroll through some app instead of feeling my feelings.
My body then picks up on these cues, and naturally feels a bit sad, helpless, and neglected. It thinks, “I’m not worth going for a walk every day” or “My feelings are so scary, I need to distract myself from them.”
The point is—your behaviors matter. You have to show yourself that you care.
Don’t worry about me, I’ll figure it out 😉 It’s no easy fix and I’ll be starting with some small, attainable goals to kick my self-care butt back into gear. But I hope this was some food for thought—What do your behaviors communicate to yourself?
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I’m not entirely sure what this poem is about. Just putting that out there. Anyway, hope everyone’s doing well. I am just on the brink of final exams, and I am trying to learn a solid chunk of measure theory and Lebesgue integration theory by Thursday.
But I am also still taking care of myself 🙌 I went for a run yesterday, kickboxed, and I’m still meditating, using my positivity jar, reaching out to friends, reading, and trying my best to manage my screen habits 😅
How did you take care of yourself today? Not to put you on the spot or anything…but I’m totally putting you on the spot 😉
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This blog started with a pickle jar—for real it did! Click here to read more, or head on down for today’s mirco post.
Message to self: I’ll always love you. Sometimes that will mean kind words and gentle embraces. If you need someone to say: “It’s okay”—I’ll be there. But sometimes love will mean sitting with emotions you really don’t want to sit with. We’ll do that together too. Sometimes love will mean stepping out of your comfort zone, and working—messily and uncertainly—towards the life you want.
And sometimes, love will mean gently unraveling yourself from that cocoon of safety that lies so sweetly.
My dear, remember to put in the time. Remember that karma is real. And remember that love will serve you well.
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This week, I interviewed four teenagers who are way cooler than me!
Jokes aside, I’m really excited to introduce you to The Sprouts:a band making waves in the local Vancouver music scene. The winners of Said the Whale’s 2020 Young Artist grant, with 6 gigs under their belt (including opening for Babe Corner), three singles on Spotify, and an impressive Instagram following, The Sprouts sat down with me (over Zoom) to talk vulnerability, friendship, and the ups and downs of making music.
Shanti, the drummer for The Sprouts, is actually a childhood friend of mine. Both of our families had summer cabins at the same lake, and we spent countless hours playing Mantracker, kick-the-can, camouflage, and building forts in the woods. The five of us (my siblings and I; Shanti and her sister) gave our group a name too: CHDLS. Why CHDLS, you ask? One initial for each of our names, and more importantly, CHDLS sounds a lot like shit-hole. Here’s a little photo of us being adorable.
But that’s enough about me, let’s dive into the interview! From left to right, we have Shanti (drums), Keisia (bass), Anna (guitar and vocals), and Aylah (guitar and vocals). I am so impressed with this band’s talent and go-getter attitude.
They also had me laughing quite a bit 😉
Preliminaries: The Sprouts’ Origin Story (Almost Called Lazy Goose)
Hanna: I think my first question is, how did The Sprouts come into being? Like, how did you guys meet? How did the band form?
Aylah: Okay, I’ll take this question. So, basically, we’ve all known each other throughout our childhood— like me, Shanti, and Keisia anyway, and we’ve been friends since elementary school, so we’ve known each other a while. And then we all met and became friends with Anna in high school, and—
Keisia: I’d like to interject and say that Aylah didn’t want Anna at first, cause—
Aylah: Okay! (laughter) This is not an appropriate time! We’ve moved past that!
Keisia: I just want to throw that in your face one more time (laughs).
Aylah: Stop! (laughter) Leave me alone. Okay, anyway, so from my side of the story, this is how it went. Keisia and I hung out, and we hadn’t hung out in a really long time. And she was doing some photography stuff, so she was taking photos of me. And then—she plays bass, I play guitar—and you know when you’re a musician, you just say this to all other musician friends you have; you’re like, “Yo dude! We should start a band.” And it just never happens. Like it just doesn’t happen. But this time—it happened. And so, Keisia, and Shanti, and I started playing at Pandora’s Box and booking rehearsal studios, and practicing there. And then it didn’t really fully start until we got Shanti’s drum kit in my basement and then Anna joined. And yea, that’s The Sprouts.
Hanna: And how did you come up with the name, The Sprouts?
Shanti: That one took a bit more time (laughter). We went through a few name phases. Our first one was Lazy Goose (laughs). That was an interesting time. And then we spent many evenings brainstorming names—
Keisia: I would like to say that my favourite one, that we brainstormed, was Oral Sausage (laughter). I just don’t think we can top it.
Shanti: But okay, that was Jesus Laura backwards.
Aylah: Yea.
Keisia: Wait, why was it Jesus? Why did we do that?
Shanti: Because—I don’t know (laughs). Cause—
Aylah: Shanti and I have Jesus hands!
Keisia: Oh right! Jesus hands?
Hanna: My brain can’t even figure that out, right now.
Aylah: It doesn’t make any sense, so don’t even try (laughs).
Keisa: But then we did it backwards and then it sounded like Oral Sausage, so we thought that was really funny.
Aylah: It does sound really funny (laughs).
Shanti: And yea, I think just one evening, I forget who said The Sprouts, but I was like “Oh, that’s cute!” And then we were all like that would be a cute—
Keisia: And then I got a text saying, “Hey, do you mind if we call ourselves The Sprouts?”(laughter) and I was like, “Yea, that’s fine” (laughs).
Favourite Song: Dragging Her Down (Listen to a Bit of It Here!)
Hanna: Do you guys have a favourite song that you’ve worked on?
Aylah: My favourite song, thinking about it right now, is probably Dragging Her Down. Just because Anna and I had the best time writing that song. It was literally a musician’s high (laughter). Sitting in my room, so exhausted from just playing guitar back and forth, and then we got something. We struck gold.
And we kept going after it, and we finally finished the song, and then we just played it for hours over and over again. We’re like: “Okay, let’s just play it again you know, cause—”
Anna: It was like the best thing we’d ever made.
Aylah: Yea, and it was like, “Woa, we can do this.” And we worked on it together which was just super fun.
Shanti: My favourite is probably also Dragging Her Down. I remember when they sent it to us—they recorded it and sent it to us in the group chat, and I was just like: Oh my god, this is so good!” (laughs). I was blown away because it actually sounded like—
Keisia: Like something you would find on like music stuff.
Shanti: Yea!
Keisia: Like a real song (laughs).
Shanti: Yea, I was so impressed!
Hanna: Yea, it’s for sure a real song (laughter).
Shanti: And playing it too is just so relaxing because it’s pretty chill. And I also love watching Anna and Aylah play this song (laughs), because at certain parts, your hands are in sync, and it’s so mesmerizing. I don’t know why, but it just looks really cool (laughs).
Aylah: Woa, that’s super cool.
Anna: Cool!
Keisia: When you guys sent that to the group chat—I think I was chilling at home—and you guys sent Dragging Her Down to the group chat, and I literally listened to it and just like cried my eyes out. And then I listened to like 6 more times and kept crying.
Anna: Yea, Dragging Her Down is really fun to play. I like that it’s like 5 minutes long which is just so unnecessary (laughter).
Aylah: We don’t give a fuck!
Anna: With two instrumentals where we just sit there and do the exact same thing.
Aylah: Yea! (laughs).
Anna: But it’s so fun.
Lonely Sad Boy Sunday (Probably the Best Story of the Interview)
Keisia: I think my actual favourite song, now that I’m thinking about it—because I forgot, because we have a lot of songs that we don’t play a lot—my favourite song is Sad Boy Sunday.
Ayla: Yesss!
Anna: Oh my god (laughs).
Ayla: Wait, okay Hanna, we need to tell you this story.
Hanna: Okay, I’m ready.
Aylah: So—
Anna: Oh, god this is bad.
Ayla: So, there’s only footage of like, one recording of us playing.
Keisia: I have it.
Aylah: Yea, at our Cafe Deux Soleil gig a while back. But basically—I don’t know when we wrote this but I was (laughs) going through a Tinder craze. Tinder and Bumble craze, I was like seeing a bunch of guys. It was just craziness. Basically, there is this one guy.Anyway, we were talking, and it was the Super Bowl. And I was like, “Oh, so are you out, like, watching the Super Bowl with the boys.” And he’s like, (mimics deep voice) “No, I’m on my couch drinking a beer, like, watching it on TV.” And I was like, “Okay, I’ll write a song about that.” And he was like: “Okay, I’ll write it and you’ll sing it.” And I was like, “Fine.” So Anna and I were together and he was sending us these horrible, rhymed verses. And we were jamming to it, and we were like, “Yea this is kinda good!” And then we wrote the chorus ourselves. And yea, we were playing our Cafe Deux Soleil gig and we had like an extra 40 minutes or something (laughs). Like we were finished our set, we were like “Thank you!” And then the lady comes up and she’s like, “Uh, you have a lot more time” (laughs). And we were like, “Fuck, okay.” And then we played that song. And it was just—it was good.
“We Don’t Work That Hard”—But It Turns Out They Do😉
Hanna: So, you guys have been pretty successful for a new band, and for a young band. What advice do you have for young people you know, making music and trying to follow their passions?
Anna: I think we got really lucky on that because we only asked for our first gig—that was it. And every other time, people DMed us or talked to us, and they were like, “Do you want to play?” Which is something that does not happen at all. So, I don’t know how that happened. We didn’t really work that hard to get gigs like most people do (laughs). Which is like a terrible thing, but it’s true. For some reason people like us, which I still can’t wrap my head around. But we didn’t do a lot of work in that area, other than trying to build our profile on Instagram and Facebook. But in terms of getting gigs, we got really, really, lucky for that somehow.
Keisia: I think also, we did ask for our first gig. But the guy who puts on most of the gigs in Vancouver, I’ve known him since I was maybe 14 because my brother’s band played a lot with him. So he always was like, “Oh you’re like a little sister.” And so when I told him, “Oh I’m in a band.” He was like, “You’re in a band now!” Like, oh my god. And so, I remember he posted something on his story, and he was like, “Anyone who wants to play on this night, DM me right now.” So, I’d sent it to the group chat, like, “Should I ask him?” And then we DMed him, and I was like, “Hey, can my band play?” And he was like, “You’re on!” That night. And we’re like (mimics shocked expression). And, yea, I feel like we really didn’t work that hard—
Hanna: Guys (laughs).
Aylah: Guys, you’re not supposed to say that (laughs)!
Anna: Okay, don’t put that part in. Don’t put that part into the interview!
Keisia: It’s just like we can’t even take credit for like—
Aylah: What!?
Keisia: Like, “Oh, we overcame, we did so much to get where we are.” We like didn’t though. And I remember after our second gig—was the second one when Haley Blais and people came to our show?
Aylah: Yea.
Keisia: The second one right? So, after that one. Chris from Peach Pit was there, and Haley Blais and Lindsay. And I remember calling Anna, and I always used to call her at night when I was walking my dog. And I remember it being like 10:30 PM, and I was like, “Anna, people like us. What the fuck? Like, why?” I don’t know how it happened, but it did, and I’m very glad.
Hanna: You guys are very humble. “We didn’t even work hard” (laughs).
Aylah: No, we did!
Hanna: I know you did (laughs).
Aylah: I’m going to come in with a counter-argument (laughter).
Shanti: Thank you, Aylah!
Hanna: Thank you (laughs).
Aylah: I know what you’re saying, and I agree we have been like, super, super lucky. But how I see it, is not that we’ve been lucky and that we don’t deserve it, because we haven’t done anything. For me, it feels like we’re meant to be doing this. Because people actually like what we’re doing, and we see it all the time because like they said, people booked our gigs for us. And we’ve gotten paid, not a lot, but we’ve gotten paid (laughs), for all of our gigs. Which is just crazy, and I think we’ve worked really, really hard, personally. But also, yea, we have been lucky. And advice, just do it. Just start a band you know? Don’t just say it, do it.
Anna: I also feel like the one other thing too, when you play music, it’s really easy to get caught up in someone else’s music. Like, I listen to shit all the time and I’m like, “Oh my god if I could make music like that, I’d die happy.” But obviously, I’m not going to, because I’m not them. And the music I turn out, I like it, but it’s not exactly what I would want to listen to. But that doesn’t matter, as long as you’re making something, it’s going to turn out. Someone’s going to like it. Someone out there is going to like it—and then if you make it you’re going to be able to change it, and learn new shit all the time, as long as you’re doing it. But when you’re just sitting on the couch, being like, “Oh woe is me. I hate making this. This is bad”—it’s not doing anything to change, and it’s not putting anything out.
Shanti: Yea, I was just going to say, I’m not a huge songwriter. For the drums, it’s a different process as opposed to songwriting. But I totally agree with Anna.
Especially with art in general, there’s this expectation that everything you make is a masterpiece and it’s amazing. But a lot of the time—and this is kinda the opposite of what we’re taught a lot of time—quantity over quality sometimes is the best way to go if you really want to refine your skills and build towards those masterpieces.
It’s just like doing it all the time and then it’ll sorta become second nature, and then you can actually build those skills from there.
The Sprouts on What Difficulties They’ve Encountered Making Music
Hanna: I was going to ask what difficulties have you guys encountered making music, but I feel like you guys are going to be like, “Oh, it was so easy” (laughs).
Aylah: No! It’s not easy, I just have to think about it for a second (laughs). Does it have to be about making music in general, or can it just be about being in a band?”
Hanna: It can be whatever you feel the answer is.
Aylah: So, being in a band with three of your really good friends, is maybe one of the best things ever, but then also hard in itself (laughs). Because if someone is being, I dunno, just like annoying or something, it’s like you don’t want to tell them because it’s your super good friend. You’re there to make music together, but you’re also there because you love spending time with each other. So, that’s a difficulty that I’ve thought of (laughs).”
Anna: Is there something you want to tell us?
Kesia: (laughs) Yea, Aylah, how come this has never come up before? (laughter)
Aylah: I just don’t talk about this stuff (laughs), I don’t know. Another thing too, personally for me, is inspiration. I mean obviously right now we’re in a very particular situation, but I have a real lack of inspiration just not being with these guys, and not being able to share my music face to face, is extremely difficult. What do you guys think?
Keisia: I think this isn’t even really a difficulty for us as a group, it was just a difficulty for me. (…) When we first started playing, I ended up indisposed for a really long time. So, we started playing, and it was really great, and we were playing a lot of music, and then I had to leave for quite a few months. So, then that was annoying because we couldn’t meet up with each other or anything, and we were just like, “Oh, okay, well it’s not going anywhere.” And then we started playing again in the summer, we added Anna, and everything got really good. And then I went indisposed again, for a little while. So, I think definitely a difficulty was just trying to be there for the band. Because I wanted to be—so bad—and I really wanted to play music with them, and sometimes life gets in the way. So, I think it was just difficult when we literally couldn’t play together when I wasn’t there. They could play together, but it was hard because I was like, “I want to be there.” But it was really nice to see the music that they came up with together. Yea, I think just the hardest part for me was being able to actually be present, and actually be there, and play music with them. And make sure that I’m in a place where I can do that. Because you’ve gotta be here if you wanna play music with your friends” (laughs). So I think, yea, just definitely trying to like be here—with them.
Hanna: For sure. Yea, it’s a balance I would imagine. Managing your own life, and then also the band life that you have together. But it seems like you guys made it through.
Aylah: Yea!
Shanti: Yes, we are so grateful for that (laughs).
Shanti: I guess this is a more personal one. But my drum set was always in Aylah’s basement (laughter). So, I couldn’t really practice on a drum kit, like on my own time. So most of my practicing at home was just playing the air drums (laughter).
Keisia: Or on garage band, babe.
Hanna: Really!
Keisia: Garage band drums (laughs).
Aylah: Yes!
Shanti: It was a bit of a struggle. I haven’t played the drums since our last practice. Which was like June (laughter). So, I’m a bit concerned about that. But hopefully, I can remember some stuff (laughs), when we get back.
It Takes Vulnerability to Make Music—And That’s Hard
How does vulnerability play into your process when you’re creating music? When you’re writing songs? Yea, does that mean anything to you guys? Vulnerability?
Aylah: Yea, for sure. Personally, I think that when you allow yourself to be the most vulnerable, I think it is when you’re allowing yourself to create the most authentic art. And when I’m writing songs—like songwriting is a coping mechanism for me—so basically all of my songs are me being vulnerable and me expressing my emotions through music. Yea, that’s a great question. I think that vulnerability is really important. What do you guys think?
Anna: I think most of our songs are just about weird things going on in our life. Me and Aylah would write songs, and it would just be about weird sad things, or how we felt. All the time, we would send each other songs and we’d just be like, “Is this about this person?” And we’d be like, “Yea” (laughs). Because it was just the weirdest little things going on and just how we felt. Almost all of our songs are just about how we feel about something or someone. Which is kinda funny, but I feel like vulnerability plays a lot into all of our music. And just playing it in front of someone, also, adds so much of a layer there.
Because it’s scary, all the time, even for people I care about, to play stuff in front of them. And then adding on to that, playing gigs and playing shows, just adds so much of that on top of a song you wrote because you were sad.
Aylah: It’s really, really hard to be vulnerable, in front of a bunch of random people that you don’t know, right? And that’s what musicians do—all the time, I think. And also, with being vulnerable too and expressing your own truth comes people being able to connect and relate to that, which is one of the most beautiful parts of music, I think.
Keisia: Yea, I have a friend (…) and she texted me one day, and she was like “I just heard Ready for a Change”—like when it came out. And she was like, “I cannot believe—It’s exactly what I needed to hear.” (…) But it’s really interesting to see how when you are open about what’s going on in your life, people are also like “Hey, me too!” And it’s like, “Oh my god, we’re all going through shit.” I think it’s a good thing for other people. Even if it’s really, really scary for you to put that out there, somebody’s going to actually find that really helpful. Like when Aylah and Anna send me their songs, it’s probably scary to put that out there, but it helps me—always—because I always like to hear their thoughts. I always hear them playing music and hear their lyrics, and I’m like, “That’s what I needed to hear. That’s so beautiful.” So, even if it’s scary somebody wants to hear it, like me.
Shanti: Yea, I agree with that. Hearing the songs that Aylah, and Anna, and Keisia write all the time, it’s just so amazing. Because it’s this portal to what they’re thinking and feeling, and I think it’s a really unique way to get your thoughts into the world.
The Sprouts Reflecting on What They’re Most Proud of as a Band
What are you guys most proud of as a band?
(laughter)
Aylah: Gotta marinate in it.
Hanna: Okay.
Shanti: As a band, I guess it’s a bit harder to say collectively. But from my point of view, I’m just proud of how far we’ve come. When we started out, I was like “Yea, sure, like, there’s no way we’re actually going to play in front of people” (laughs). And to think back at that, it’s just interesting to see how much can change and how much that we can grow together through the process, and making things, and creating music. I played the drums before, not with the intention of joining a band. I just thought it would be a good instrument to learn. And I never really envisioned myself being in a band because performing has never really been something that I’ve been drawn to. I prefer to do things in a more isolated setting. But yea, just the growth, I think.
Keisia: Yea, I think just how much we’ve—I know this sounds so cliche—like, “Oh how much we’ve all grown as people.” But it’s true because (…)
Just to see how we went from playing some covers—playing Should I Stay or Should I Go in a room where we were terrified of leaving the second door open a little bit because we thought someone would hear us (laughter), to putting ourselves out there, playing a song we learned the same day at a gig, aka Lonely Sad Boy Sunday, playing a Peach Pit cover in front of Peach Pit.
Me even putting a song out there, trying to sing. Just all of it, I don’t think I could have ever imagined this being where we are now, but I’m so happy it is. But I really did not imagine we’d be here.
Aylah: Kudos to what both of you guys said. I really, really agree. I think the proudest moment for me was when we played the Babe Corner show because that was just absolutely amazing. Peach Pit is probably one of my all-time favourite bands and we played—like we played with Chris’ girlfriend and Chris was on stage.
Keisia: And they were all watching us too!
Aylah: Yea, and they watched us—it was crazy. And just how much attention and exposure we got from Peach Pit, and how every single member of the Vancouver local music scene has been so generous to us. I’m really, really proud of that. It’s a really crazy feeling to be like, “We’re making something, and people like it,” you know?” It’s crazy to admit that, I guess. But we’ve just gotten so much attention and so much love. It’s really, really cool.
Anna: Yea, playing in front of Peach Pit was fucking sick (laughter). That was like the best moment of my fucking life. It was amazing. I messed up the entire thing, but they didn’t say anything about it. They didn’t say anything about it. So, that was great. Also, I’m just really proud of us for sticking with the band.
Keisia: Yea, because I feel like me and Anna especially, we have this thing where we’ll both start doing a hobby together and then drop it within a day. Like, remember when we were going to be runners last summer?
Anna: Yea, we did a lot—
Keisia: We do that a lot.
Anna: Yea, I’m super bad with that. Where it’s like you make a plan, you get so fucking hyped and then you’re like, “mm-mm, don’t want to do it anymore.”
Keisia: Me and Anna did skateboarding for a while and then after a few weeks we stopped doing it. We were like let’s go for runs every morning, we never did that actually (laughter). We got as far as buying running shorts actually.
Hanna: Oh, okay—far.
Kesia: We did like knitting. Did we? And stuff like that.
Aylah: I just want to say, I think that’s why we kinda work together pretty well. Because Shanti and I are very like—I don’t want to say anal—
Anna: But you said it (laughter).
Aylah: But I said it (laughs). And if you guys don’t show up, or if you’re late, and you’re not engaging or whatever, Shanti and I are going to be on you. We know that we all want to be in the band, and sometimes stuff comes up, and you guys have other stuff going on like we all do, but I think we kinda balance each other out and I think that that’s super good.
On Friendship and Supporting One Another: “And Then We All Slap Each Other In the Face”
Hanna: So you guys are friends first and then you’re a band second. So how do you guys support each other as friends?
Keisia: I don’t know. I don’t want to sound like so cliche—because I feel like everything I say is cliche these days—but it’s really true. I guess they’re cliche for a reason—oh my god that was so cliche. Oh my god (laughter). But I don’t know, I think we do support each other as friends a lot, and I think it’s made being in a band so much easier. Because before gigs, we do this compliment circle—
Hanna: Awww (laughs)
Keisia: —where we’ll just stand around each other and be like, “You’re amazing! We’re amazing! I’m proud of us! We’re great!” And then we all slap each other—in the face (laughter). So, we each slap every person in the face.
Hanna: (laughs)
Kesia: (…) If I was ever coming to practice, and I was in my pajamas feeling like absolute shit, and just sitting there like, (mimics sad expression), I always just knew that somebody would come and give me a hug, and be like, “Okay, suck it up, we’re doing practice now.” I don’t know, it just feels like a really supportive environment. I can’t even pinpoint things that we do that are supportive, but it always feels like if anybody needs anything, one of us is going to be there or all of us. And just knowing that they’re all behind you because we’ve always got each other back. Even when we don’t see each other for a while like now.
Shanti: Yea, it’s hard to put everything into words. But yea, I think just because we’ve all been through so much together, and have seen each other at different stages, that just being there throughout that whole timeline, I guess is a big part of friendship, growing—I don’t know where I’m going with this (laughs). I’m just trying to capture that aura of support and being there for each other.
Aylah: Yea, I think you’re right. I think because we’re all pretty good friends with each other, we just make the space super inviting and super understanding and safe. Practices are always at my house—I mean, not now—but you know sometimes I’ll be having a shitty day or whatever, and then everybody comes over and it’s like, “Aww great, now I have to entertain people.” But everybody understands, and usually, my bad mood will just dissipate, because
We’ll be playing a song or something, and I’ll just look around at everybody in their zone, and I’m like, “I love these people so much, and we’re making music together, and it sounds damn good.”
It’s just so, so cool. So, yea, I feel like we do a pretty good job supporting each other. We’re always there.
Keisia: Aylah, you’re about to make me cry.
Anna: I feel like tying into that vulnerability thing, sometimes you can’t really say what you feel, but listening to someone’s new song that they just wrote, you get this weird vision into their head, again. And so just also knowing them so well, you’re able to kinda deconstruct that, and then tell if they’re having a bad time, or having a great time. And so being friends is really helpful with just comfort level, in terms of playing. And also, just being able to read what’s going on, and then helping and stuff, I think.
Hanna: So even if you’re not overtly telling each other what’s going on, you have that insight when you’re reading each other’s music and vibing with each other.
Aylah: Like you can tell the vibe. The vibe will be off or it’ll be on (laughs). And we don’t necessarily need to solve the problem. But we’ve created this sacred space. And we’re all just going to forget about our issues for a little bit and just make music together.
Closing Thoughts: Thoughtful and Full of Energy
This brings us to the end of our interview, I hope you enjoyed The Sprouts’ thoughtful answers as much as I did. In past, I would include my own commentary throughout my interviews, but with this one, I thought it spoke wonderfully for itself and I didn’t want to break the flow. I’ll just give my little bit now, so it doesn’t go unsaid. Shanti, Keisia, Anna, and Aylah, I am so impressed with you guys! I’m impressed that you know so much about vulnerability—I asked that question on a whim and I truly wasn’t expecting such insightful answers. When I was your age, I was about as vulnerable as a turtle. And yes, that’s the best anecdote I can think of right now. You guys make awesome music—I’ve been jamming to Dragging Her Down all day, and I definitely don’t think it’s too long 😉 Finally, I think you’re a great example for people everywhere to follow their passions, and just go for it.
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Some 2:00 AM poetry for yall. What can I say. It’s the end of the semester guys, but I am still finding time for poetry. Hope everyone’s week is going well❤️
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This blog started with a pickle jar—for real it did! Click here to read more, or head on down for today’s mirco post.
My dear, you do great things. You wake up, you breathe, and you continue. On the days when you think you are just getting by, you are surviving. That is incredible.
When you hurt badly, I am proud of you for feeling. When you show yourself kindness, I am proud of you for choosing the road less traveled. When you wonder, “what on Earth will happen to me?” Well then, my dear, I am proud of you for being brave enough to face uncertainty.
Everyone is doing their best. You are doing your best. My dear, Love holds pride for all of her children.
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I don’t know what to say. But I would like to say something. Adopted hideaway means that life hurts, and I don’t hide from that fact. I try to embrace my pain. I write stories about my pain, I take ownership of it, I create art out of it, I cope, I persevere, and I survive.
Amateur dream-catcher. This means I dream big. I dream of love, safety, and security. And every day I work to make those dreams a reality. This means loving myself fully and finding my tribe.
Finally, I am a mother of tears, which means that I cry with every version of myself. There is much to grieve and much to be grateful for. If you cannot tend to yourself, how will you tend to others?
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